Is it a misconception to associate Satanism w Black Metal?
kinda inspired by KP's question yesterday, and just comments i've seen in general about black metal.
First off, I do know there are quite a few black metal bands that are satanist or if not their lyrics are...but when i look through my library of black metal, most of it is not at all.
There are so many Black Metal bands that have lyrics on subjects such as history, war, mythology, nature, astronomy, etc.....
so for every Dissection, Gorgoroth, Marduk....There are countless others like Borknagar, Cobalt, Blut Aus Nord, Absu, Falkenbach, Arcturus, Enslaved, etc.... that don'thave any lyrics that are "HAIL SATAN".
To me, this is like saying all death metal is Gore related and all Power metal is fantasy based (ok...maybe it is haha) and I think that the casual metal fans tend to be closed off towards Black Metal because of this and imo are missing out on some great music.
There are also plenty of Death Metal bands that are lyrically satanic (Deicide, Immolation, Akercocke, etc....) but i hardly ever see the connection made between the genre
anyways, end of my rant....i'll leave you with some non-satanic BM
MQ: so, as the title says do you think that that satanism should be associated with Black Metal? why or why not?
BQ: of the 3 songs i posted, favourite if any?
- 1 decade agoFavourite answer
I am not sure if it is or isn't.
It also depends on your definition of Satanism. After all we have occult Satanism,. Theistic Satanism, Philisophical Satanism ( satan is an ideal, not a person.. a lot like making a dog eat dog philosophy of the Prometheus legend) and of course, a very large amount ( of just not black metal but folk and death ) embraces Viking Neo-Paganism.. which is still preaching death to Christians.
Anyways... i find just because a song does nto shout "satan, satan,satan, gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!" doesn't mean that the inherent imagery is not satanic, or otherwise disgusting. I largely hate grindcore because it is repugnant, and my the core of my own belief, satanic in the reveling of gore and violence.
*Shrugs* so a lot is a matter of perspective, and a matter of hwo strong ones beliefs, if any are. I find a lot of people who object to the concept of there being black and white morality of course have no problem listening to anything.... be it Burzum with with the nazi propaganda, to Golgoroth with his outright occult satanic beliefs.
BUT.. but for those actually do believe in a form of actual rigid morality, well, I find that I have no desire to even come close to being associated with it. Why do I want to listen to music that promotes hatred of me, my beliefs, and my ancestry ( which is mixed jewish )? I may vehemently be opposed to Satanism ( as a former Practising LeVayen and Luciferean, I believe I have had an open mind about it tyvm ) but I do not attack people over their beliefs, or lifestyles. I firmly believe, in the end, well, we'll see who has the last laugh, but it ain't my place to act as judge and executioner.
And make no mistake.. as you know, I like good melodic black metal... you have gotten me into several bands, and Cobalt, Absu and others are very good.
But you have to admit, the vocal Minority of Black metal if not Satanic is Anti-Christian, which at the end of the day, from a practical standpoint to a Christian, is much the same thing. After all, if you hate ma and want to kill me and mine, does it really matter if you do it in the name of Satan or Odin?
But to the point.. Stereotypes do tend to start for a reason, and a large part of Black metal was founded on either Satanic Belief or Satanic Imagery. A large amount of Death metal DOES focus on gore n war, and a lot of Power IS about fantasy.
And then there is a percentage of each that does not choose to live by the stereotype, which is why I make it point to not judge any band on their Genre, but on their actual music and message. And while many people will poopoo worrying about the lyrics, that is MY decision to make, not theirs.
MQ- No, tbh. I think that if one looks, their is openly Satanic Black Metal, Death Metal, Power Metal, Heavy and Thrash. And there is Neo Pagan, and even Christian versions of all the above. As I said, judge the band by ones own beliefs, not the genre.
BQ- Tough choices. I already like Cobalt, as you know. And Falkenbach. The first band, Borknagar is new to me.. but I really dig that track. Out of those 3 tracks, I gotta go with Borknagar
***@Tron...all and all a very good Question my friend, and interesting to get input from people on all ends of the Spectrum when it comes to the Satanism in Metal debate.
--------NONE ARE MORE HOPELESSLY ENSLAVED THAN THOSE WHO FALSELY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE FREE - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Tron, what you might find rather amusing is that I'm a Satanist(LaVeyan, so, you know, not theistic) and I LOVE Black Metal, esp. the Norwegian ones that burned down the churches. Not because of the lyrical content, though, but because I love the sound, the feel, the atmosphere in black metal.
Of course, to say all Black Metal is Satanic is retarded.
Also, for power metal all being fantasy-based, Sonata Arctica. Sure, tehy have SOME songs like that, but overall not many.
What I find even more amusing is that a LOT of people think the True Norwegian Black Metal movement was a bunch of death metal bands.
MA: No, I don't. Satanism is actually very laid back in general. A lot of famous satanists have listened to classical music and jazz over all other genres.
BA: Arsonry, for sure.
- 1 decade ago
Well, I guess, like in news today, you hear about the extremes. You don't hear about that one crazy black metal band that sings about history, you hear about the one who is satanic/murdering people/burning churches.
some of the first black metal bands and bands that influenced black metal sang of Satanism (like Venom, Hellhammer, and Celtic Frost) and then the later Black Metal bands took that up, so the genre became associated with darkness and satanism.
Of course I think that's stupid, it's a prejudgment! Lyrical themes can be part of a genre, but I ultimately think the music (instruments/type of vocals) is what the genre is defined as. A band could sing about ponies and unicorns and be Black Metal.
BQ: I keep forgetting to listen to more Falkenbach! That was damn good.Source(s): Sorry to write an essay!
- SmileyLv 71 decade ago
Without feeling the necessity to explore the "true definition" of Satanism in all its glory (Lol), I'll say nah...it's a misconception. Though I'm sure some fans do carry it to the extreme...same way fans of 'Wham' and 'Boy George/Culture Club' might carry stereotypes associated with their music to the extreme, Lol.
I suppose it doesn't really make any difference to me. Stereotypes/misconceptions and Music will always be joined at the hip...be it Be-Bop/Jazz, Psychedelic Rock, Punk Rock, or Country...though having a hankering for farm animals may in fact NOT be a misconception on the latter.
Some will no doubt associate Satanism with Black Metal regardless. There's always going to be people out there interested in that sort of thing, and some of the subject matter, symbolisms etc associated with some of the music will no doubt appeal to those persons looking for it.
When I was younger, many people had this tendency to associate long hair with Charles Manson ("oh my God Frank...there's one of those long hairs coming towards us...don't look at him!"), and/or drug use with much of the music popular at that time...Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, Hawkwind, etc. It didn't really bother me at all, as I was known to indulge from time to time. But there were many listeners who didn't partake in those aspects of 60's/70's culture.
I remember the first time I played Black Sabbath's debut album...my Parents were quite concerned...especially when the neighbours cat vanished a few days later! Lol
'Borknagar' are cool. 'Cobalt' almost reminded me of 'Helmet' for a moment. Good stuff!
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- 1 decade ago
I think it is a misconception... I don't listen to much black metal at all, but the bands i do listen to are nothing of the sort; i like mainly agalloch and krallice, as well as wolves in the throne room, and they are focused almost entirely on organic themes, like nature, as well as weird metaphysical themes. i try to actively avoid satanic black metal, as lots of satanic BM artists seem to be arsonists, murderers and fascists as well... take varg vikernes, or gaahl from gorgoroth...
so yes, i disagree with the stereotype but there is no ignoring the fact that there is satanic black metal that exists.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
It is a horrible stereotype people do to think that all metal is satanic. Some is and thats where the stereotypers should be targeting not just black metal in general. they can't dis on a band if they havent spent five seconds looking at the lyrics
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Of course it's not all Satanistic, good point.
MA: Well yes sort of, because of bands like Burzum and Mayhem and their activities which, like it or not, are bound in hand to the genre.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
No because most black metal is actually just guys who sing about death not satanism although their Santanic Black Metal bands like Deificide and Mayhem and other bands
BQ: I don't really like metal...................
- DemiLv 71 decade ago
I think most people have a misconception about Satanism in general. There's no "Satan" in there for the vast majority of them. Satanists come in two varieties - Philosophical (LaVeyan being the most common of them - as in Church of Satan [CoS] ) and Theological. Philosophical Satanists are atheists, they believe in neither gods nor devils, heaven or hell or anything of that nature. They view the self as the ultimate source of power in this world - you are your own god in that respect. It is all about being true to the self, about being who YOU are, not what the world wants you to be and screw the rest of them. That is very much in line with black metal in general from the first wave to the present. You embrace the inner self and if there is darkness there, you do not shun it or try to stifle it - it's part of who you are and everyone else can go F themselves if they don't like it. Satan in this case is a figurehead - a symbol of our own rebellion against the world at large by our tacit refusal to conform to it in every little way. Philosophical Satanists are artists, lawyers, doctors, judges, the guy who owns the market down the street from your house, police officers, army officers - you name it, like the almost-as-scary (to the uninformed) "biker", they're everywhere and from all walks of life. Most people just don't realize they're dealing with a Satanist.
The much more rare Theological Satanists believe that Satan is an actual entity but that he is the true and natural ruler of the earth and mankind and actually is a benevolent deity that has been maliciously slandered by the god of Abraham, who they view as malignant, evil, sadistic and leading mankind away from freedom and happiness into misery and servitude. They use the bible heavily to back up their points. They also tend to be much, much better educated about christianity in general and know their bibles better than the vast majority of christians do. While this puts Satan above man and is therefore not as much in line with black metal philosophy in general there are aspects of it in some black metal as well.
Luciferians are an entirely different species. Some don't like being called Satanists, others do not mind but will roll their eyes a bit. They honor Lucifer, the "light bringer" aspect of the Satan entity.
From a christian standpoint anything that does not edify the god of Abraham in your life is "Satanic". From the Satanic standpoint, not honoring oneself and groveling before another - even a deity - is simply abhorrent and unnatural. Which is not only completely in line with black metal, but also my own faith (Nordic Heathen - Foreningen Forn Sed/CCK). Which is why some of us Heathenfolk can be found in closer proximity to Satanists in some cases than we are to our other Pagan brothers and sisters - if we're not busy getting in trouble with park rangers for running through national forests in large numbers with full drinking horns in one hand, weapons in another and about 10 pounds worth of Mjolnir and runic amulets dangling from our necks. (Hey - we have fun!)
No, I don't think it is a misconception to associate Satanism and black metal. While not all Satanists enjoy black metal of course, you'd be hard pressed to find any black metal that did not reflect Satanic values to some extent. After all, it is very clear to those of us familiar with both varieties of that path "Satan" as an actual entity usually has almost nothing to do with it.
I think if the association bothers people who enjoy black metal they should concentrate on both educating others as to what "Satanism" actually *is* and explaining that the double bass line with no fill and those screeching vocals will ALWAYS belong to black metal. ;-)
BQ: I have a thing for Falkenbach, of course. Vratyas Vakyas grew up in Iceland but now lives in Germany (he's German) so in some of his music you get the Germanic lore from both the Nordic viewpoint (we are one of the original Germanic tribes, ya know) AND the German viewpoint. He's perfectly blended them in his work. I think it gives more interest and depth to his work and definitely makes him stand out when his work is viewed as a whole. I suspect when Vortex takes up with Borknagar again (he's doing guest vocals on their release out this year) I'll swing back in their favor again. I have a thing for Vortex. (but not *that* kind of thing - his wife could probably kick my scrawny @ss so I wouldn't admit it if I did. LOL!)Source(s): Nordic Heathen - I was the Heathen modamin for the old Heathen, Pagan and Satanic chats and forums. Unrepentant True Norwegian Black Metal wench, too! \m/ >.< \m/