Jehovah's Witnesses, how do you know the members of the governing body are anointed by God's spirit?
Raymond Franz left because he had a crisis of conscience. If God's spirit had borne witness with his spirit that he had a heavenly calling would he have doubted that Jehovah's Witnesses is the true religion ? Follows that some if not all of the governing body may be making false claims about having a heavenly calling. You have no way of knowing right ? So you are just following the interpretation of some men withh long careers in the organisation.
Works are not proof of anointment. Otherwise every Witness could claim to be anointed as you do have a lot of good works. As did this man who was not anointed.
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. - Mathew 11:11
- Anonymous8 years agoBest answer
It's simple, they have blind faith in men.
They rejected Jesus as their savior, and adopted the Organization as their vehicle to the stars.
They thrive on the dreams and interpretations of corrupt men, and when their corruption is clearly displayed, they become censured by their own fears.
God almighty has sent a very strong Delusion on this peoples, and it can only be vanquished by their making a true calling on Christ, to life that veil of delusion.
God demands that His Son is Glorified alongside Him. But the Jehovah's Witnesses have long ago dispensed with glorifying the "small g".
Mindy has again exposed her great wisdom, in comparing the apostles to her governing body...the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses mean well, I am sure, but they are liars, and now accused criminals....and not falsely accused, they have hurt little children by their protecting of pedophiles, and hiding the sins of elder's sons who are monsters.
The apostles were men of great endurance, who weathered all sorts of real persecution, not like the governing naughty, who have their meals served up, clothes pressed, laundry done, and a car awaiting them at their beck and call, a wonderful warm and cozy home, and the ability to travel the world at the expense of the sheep, Mindy being one of them...
Raymond Franz is truly a Christian man, with a Christ-like conscience, that would not allow him to deceive himself, of millions of others any longer. Mindy doesn't know her pasta from her noodles, so her opinion here is valueless, as pertains to one speaking with ANY authority, or accuracy.
These witnesses are so completely deluded, they need to be reminded of their incredible lack of knowledge about their own sect.Source(s): a 40 year survivor of the Man of lawlessness.
- JoanneLv 44 years ago
In the time of Jesus, only Jesus was anointed to send the 70, what they did, Luke 10:1-18; in the presence of Satan, was due to Jesus being anointed. A large body could function with so few anointed, so at Pentecost, 120 was all that was needed, then from there came the New Testament until God gave Revelation to Jesus, Rev.1:1-3,5; 3:12,14; So the world began to have the word of God in the form of the KJV Bible so that it was 303 years old at WW1[Rev.11:1-3; Rev.12:3,4,6,7-12; Rev.13:1- 5, 6-10], with 1260 days, 3 1/2 years and this all the same as 42 Months, to go. The pit is open for Satan from Rev.9:1-5, those being sealed or anointed are there to be sealed and anointed, at Rev.20:1-6, the pit was still open for Satan, in all the short time he was cast down, since the 1260 days are involved, Rev.12:6,7-12; then Dan.12:1-13, is involved, that means Matt.24: 3,7,14[15,21-24,36,-38], is involved, Matt.25:31-34, will be involved, so that the world is in the time of the end. Daniel was in 3, he gives 4 after, John & Jesus are in 6, Rev.17:5,10-14; 5 have fallen, 6 is, the 8th is of the 7. Some are anointed to understand what the anointed are saying, some understand as they know the anointed know and the word is from the anointed, and God gives all time, the time is right for that to be understood, God alone knows the day and hour to Rev.20:1-6, for children of the light of times and seasons, Jesus does not come as a thief in the night. He does to the worldly. So who has got to be anointed, after Rev.14:1-5,6, is in place, there are still those making the coming kingdom known, just as the 70 that did it for Jesus.
- danmanLv 68 years ago
Circular reasoning seems to be very easy for most jw. They will say we have the truth, why? Because we say so. Easy no problems.
Yet when it comes to members like Ray Franz, they forget too easily. Ray Franz works his way up through the organization over the years, being 'spirit' appointed every step of the way. He is placed by that same spirit in the 'governing body' the body of men supposedly selected and anointed by Jehovah to represent the entire body of remaining anointed on the earth.
Now in a position by God himself, he discovers that the scriptures do not uphold some of the teachings of his organization. What do his fellow "anointed" governing body members do? They dis fellowship him for having lunch with a former member.
Why would anyone be interested in serving in a GOVERNING position without really being able to govern at all? Just 7 old men who feel compelled to remain complacent and unified? Just how does that gel with governing.
@ "Faithful till the end" seems to be the key words jw refer to when anyone leaves or is disfellowshipped from the ORGANIZATION. The sheer magnitude of the brainwashing is astounding. It matters little to them that Ray Franz went on believing in God, went on writing about his faith, till his death he held fast to what the bible message really is. Yet jw will attribute 'faithful' to the end as directly linked to remaining within the ORGANIZATION. Is it any wonder why they are accused of following men rather than God? Not in the least.
- 8 years ago
I just picked out one Jw answer above and dissected the points out it of why they can reassure themselves. So here is basically what they said:
- "To give absolute proof they claim an increase". Well that is nice but so are a lot of other organizations as well. Also they do not quote how many have walked out the door over the years. I have heard some figures that say that the numbers that they retain at present, equal the numbers that have walked since the inception of that organization. Thinking about that point and keeping these associated points in mind, brings the strength of that proof into perspective!
- "To give reasons why people leave the Jw org, it is blamed on Satan and his demons". Well it is so easy to throw the blame on something that is assumed to the reason, but is it ever considered that the ones who left may have found discrepancies with the teachings of the Jw org, and not because Satan and his demons were misleading them. Like I said, it is so easy to throw the blame on something especially when the idea of who they are blaming is really intended to put fear into the remaining followers to not listen to outside truths. We all know that the Jw org not partial to making their own utterances of things that have been proved false. Now if the Jw org is going to condemn all reasoning from the outside and say it is the teaching of demons, then shouldn't they be held with the same reputation when they are shown to be false??? Anything other would have to most definitely be an hypocrisy.
- They used the reference to Judas as a comparision. By doing this they have condemned someone by use of scripture. This actually is a misuse of scripture. The scriptures tell us that it is not/never our place to condemn, yet the Jw org is obviously telling their followers in one way or another that it's okay. Now I don't know about you but I believe this action gives reason to show that the Jw org is not a God's organization. Only God can judge and for a human organization to do it tells us what this organization is really about.
- They talked about the 1st century congregation and said these types of things give example of how it happened back then with followers going bad, and they used the parallel talking about how ones who had the spirit and did not remain faithful. But this really goes to the heart of your question. How can they be sure that what they have been told is right? You can run around all day and make all the claims under the sun and even say that we are equivalent to the 1st century congregation, but in the end claims are only claims. How can they say that they have the spirit working in their organization?
As far as I can tell, everything points to it being just a blind acceptance of the claims! I think you make a good point.
EDIT: @Mindy: Mindy should look at the "context" of why I point out that the way the scriptures are used in reference to Judas. It is not that the scriptures do not point out that Judas is condemned; it is that the Jw org and it's followers use this example to condemn others. Of course it is not their place to do that and this practice is obviously a misuse of the scriptures; this is the context of my comments. But they can do things like this because they are in the Jw org and that means it's okay. I think it is like danman said; it's circular reasoning! To a Jw follower, there can be no error because it's all truth
Yes you see for a certainty, they have condemned Ray Franz as well as many many others; this is what I am talking about
- What do you think of the answers? You can sign in to give your opinion on the answer.
- Justin & BekkaLv 68 years ago
to me this doesn't matter. what matters is whether or not they're relying entirely on the Holy Spirit for THEIR work in understanding truth as taught in the Scriptures in John 16:13. as much as JWs claim to do their own private study of the Bible they never stray from relying on those watchtower publications for help.
i work with a JW in the making and i've kept a discrete and private profile of what i actually know about the organization and what i think of it. i have substantial insight on the indoctrinating process. he brings into the break room a copy of the NWT and a couple publications from the watchtower bible and tract society that he fills out and uses as a reference.
a note to mindy: once again you're providing completely biased information on the coptic translation of John1:1. grammatically, the author gives it away.
the ironic thing is us "trinitarians" don't rely simply on one verse for sound doctrine. there are multiple verses in the Scriptures that prove Christ to be God incarnate, coptic and even nwt. i find your candor to be quite pious and "holier than thou" when presenting your "truth". are you this rude in the stranger's doorway whom you meet on your visitations?
also, it is Christ who prophesied judas' betrayal and fate. you make it seem as if it was mark who did so. YOU are not Christ and YOU cannot compare someone to judas since YOU do not divinely know their spiritual status nor their spiritual fate. how dare you? it is this disgusting display of "love" that completely turns me off from your organization. ray franz helped publish material that is heavily relied on by the watchtower organization's followers, yet judas was not responsible for teaching others before his death. clearly, there are substantial differences between the two.
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- angelmusicLv 78 years ago
John 3:8 explains that just as we cannot control the wind, we cannot control the holy spirit and its action on a person.
The holy spirit is so powerful that it makes very very clear to an individual whether they are anointed or not.
Also the apostle Paul pointed out in 1st Corinthians 11:29 that a person who partakes and therefore identifies him/herself of the anointed is drinking death to themselves.
This is no laughing matter and is meant in all seriousness. Jehovah's people know the seriousness of making such a claim and it not being so.
Hebrews 10:30 says that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Most would not put themselves in such a position with Jehovah for some "glory" that would be short lived at best.
That being said, yes some can and do fall away. They did in Bible times, and they do today.
As ambassadors for Christ, the anointed see and recognize their PRIMARY responsibility in this life to be PREACHERS and TEACHERS. And to do this with all earnest EVERY DAY of their lives.
Helping others to get to know Jehovah IS THEIR FOOD AND THEIR LIFE.
They do not see it to be possible to face death and then face Jehovah and say "I didn't have enough time to read the Bible or pray or teach others." That is treading on ice so thin as to be unheard of.
Works are not what constitutes an anointed one. They grow old and have health concerns and set backs like anyone else. But the thinking and the heart motivation HAS to be there. The DESIRE has to be there - and I do mean a SERIOUS DESIRE.
Jehovah selects a person for HIS REASONS. And who do we think we are to question the Almighty in his judgment?
If they are not, whether it is one on the governing body, or one in a local congregation, the words of Paul in 1st Timothy 5:24 apply -
"The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgment, but as for other men, their sins become manifest later."
So if there is a problem with any one individual, Jehovah will see that it will be taken care of at HIS TIME.
But he promised that we would have men taking the lead in instruction in the congregation, and that includes the governing body. - Acts 20:28, 1st Timothy 5:17
So as long as there are anointed brothers on earth, we will have a faithful and loyal governing body representing all of God's anointed.
As for the comment that there is no one to be referred to as anointed but Christ - please read Zechariah 4:14.Source(s): One of Jehovah's Witnesses
- LizLv 78 years ago
Then how do you explain Judas Iscariot? And it was JESUS himself that he was with.
- Rolando C ILv 68 years ago
How do you know they're not ? Have you met them in person ? Have you talked to them in person ?We know that the Apostles including Paul were anointed with the holy spirit because the bible says they were. But if the Bible didn't mention it or they were mentioned in the Bible would you be able to tell whether they were anointed or not ? You're argument has no basis.
- LungboyLv 68 years ago
It's a good question.
A common trait of a cult is no accountability of the leaders. I like to ask them how they would identify that their leaders no longer had their God's blessing.
The same old reply is that Jehovah would clear it up.
So if the Governing Body is the only avenue of information from Jehovah, and Jehovah no long blesses their efforts, there is absolutely no way he could effect change. They just stubbornly keep saying that he would somehow, caught in a logical falicy, unwilling to accept what the answer to the question means.
- AbdijahLv 78 years ago
Certainly those who are anointed and have the heavenly calling can fall away. We should not doubt this possibility. Mindy gave the Biblical example of Judas Iscariot.
There were to be others as well:
“For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame. For example, the ground that drinks in the rain which often comes upon it, and that then brings forth vegetation suitable to those for whom it is also cultivated, receives in return a blessing from God. But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected and is near to being cursed; and it ends up with being burned.”Source(s): (Hebrews 6:4-8)